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Forum:Was Davy Jones A Pirate Lord?
I've read somewhere that Davy Jones was 'the former Pirate Lord of the Scottish Lochs'. Was Davy Jones a Pirate Lord? I have a two arguments for and against this. First of all Davy Jones was often called 'the Devil of the Seas'. This might be just me, but I don't think he earned that title just for being an honest sailor; it rings something of 'infamy' and 'Pirate Lord'. Secondly Jones taught the Brethren Court how to bind Calypso, so at the very least he must of had some contact with the pirates and the first Brethren Lords, if he wasn't indeed one himself. Thirdly, Jones has a grandeur to him. I just can't imagine him as a merchent or a fisher or something mundane like that... he is a free spirit whose and in love with the sea, and he doesn't take kindly to authority or being bossed around (as shown when he is under the command of Cutlar Beckett); the quintessencial characteristics of a pirate. The argument against this is that it doesn't directly address this in the films (bugger) so we can't actually be sure. But still I think it would be cool to associate old Dai in some way with the Brethren Court, like Teague Sparrow is the Keeper of the Pirate Codex. Davy should be 'Binder of Calypso' or something like that. What does everyone else think? P.S It occoured to me yesterday that if Davy was the Pirate Lord of the Scottish Lochs, it might have something to do with his relationship with the Kraken. Maybe the Kraken was the Loch Ness monster and Davy found him while he was searching the lake or something. I dunno, but I think it's a kind of cool idea. :Nothing has been officially confirmed - \\Captain Kwenn// — Ahoy! 16:34, 25 June 2007 (UTC) I dont think he can be, because barbossa says the brethren court bound Calypso at this very spot (being pirate hall). If Davy Jones were a pirate lord he would have been there, and yet in At World's End Calypso doesnt know it was Jones that showed the court how to imprison her.KickAssJedi 18:06, 25 June 2007 (UTC) :It does say that the Brethren Court was on the very spot, but that doesn't mean that Davy Jones had to be there... maybe Jones told the Pirate King how to bind Calypso and just left him and the rest of pirates to their own devices. But yeah, it is kind-of a hole in my idea. What i am saying, is that IF davy jones was a pirate lord he would have HAD to been at shipwreck cove when calypso was bound because all 9 of pieces of eight were required. In at world's end Calypso doenst know that davy jones was the one that showed the court how to bind her therfore he COULD NOT have been there, and therefore was NOT a pirate lord.KickAssJedi 14:11, 26 June 2007 (UTC) :Nowhere does it state that Jones was present when Calypso was bound. He only told the Brethren how to bind Calypso. And, as the film shows, all Pirate Lords do not have to be present; they only have to declare their piece of eight - Ragetti then sneaks off with the plate, implying that Barbossa only wanted the pieces of eight, not the Pirate Lords themselves; that's why he cuts off Jack's coin, rather than ensuring Jack's around for Calypso's release. Therefore, even if he was a Lord, Jones would not necessarily have been present when Calypso was actually bound - \\Captain Kwenn// — Ahoy! 14:29, 26 June 2007 (UTC) I dint say jones was definately there i said if he was there then calypso would have known he was the one who betrayed her, and yet in the film she doesnt.KickAssJedi 14:52, 26 June 2007 (UTC) :If Davy Jones was ever a pirate lord, he would have to have had a piece of eight. I don't think he would have given it to someone else-he wanted Calypso trapped in a human body-and it seems inconceable for anyone to steal it from him. So it seems unlikely that he was a pirate lord. - Captain J. Sparrow 19:07, 31 August 2007 (UTC) Well Teagues postion as Lord of Madagascar proves that there are pirate lords outside the brethren court, Davy Jones may not have been one of the nine lords but he could have gone by the title in his own right, but seeing as nothing official suggests he was a lord debating over it isnt very productive.--'\\Captain KickAssJedi//' 20:14, 31 August 2007 (UTC) :I don't believe that Teague's supposed position as a Pirate Lord can be considered canonical. See comments here. Also, this discussion should be at the Faithful Bride forum. I'm moving the page.--Lord Cutler BeckettPort Royal 06:37, 2 September 2007 (UTC) I don't think it nessacary contridicts the films. It is possible that Teague has a successor (Jack more than likely). It doesn't say that a successor must govern the same body of water as the predecessor, just the rank of Pirate Lord. Bartholomew 09:32, 2 September 2007 (UTC) Bartholomew Agreed seeing as the book is G canon and doesnt contradict the film, we have to take teaguess position as lord of madagascar as canon for the time being.--'\\Captain KickAssJedi//' 12:34, 2 September 2007 (UTC) :Bartholomew: That undermines our entire understanding of the Brethren Court. Captain KAJ (pardon the abbreviation): The books (especially those movie guide things) often contradict the movies, and so no, we can't consider his possible lordship as being canon.--Lord Cutler BeckettPort Royal 12:44, 2 September 2007 (UTC) ::Yes, we can. It simply means there are Lords other than "the nine" -- which makes sense, really, seeing as nine pirates confined to their individual seas can't really rule the entire world - [[User:Kwenn|'Captain Kwenn']] – Talk 14:16, 2 September 2007 (UTC) :::As far as im aware there is nothing in the film that suggests teague cant be a pirate lord in his own right, he is established as a powerfull pirate captain who the brethren court fear and respect. A canon source has described him as a pirate lord so as far as the wiki's concerened he is such until a higher canon says otherwise, am I right or am I wrong.--'\\Captain KickAssJedi//' 17:52, 2 September 2007 (UTC) ::::Perhaps Pirate Lords unaccotiated with the Brethren Court, but otherwise they would have been at the meeting. Plus, Barbossa said, "I call upon Cap'n Teague, Keeper of the Code!", not, "I call upon Cap'n Teague, Pirate Lord of Madagascar, and Keeper of the Code!" That should explain most of it right there.--Lord Cutler BeckettPort Royal 17:51, 3 September 2007 (UTC) :::::But Barbossa was calling upon Teague to bring forth the Codex -- so using that title is more apt than his Pirate Lord title. Plus, why would Barbossa stand there reeling off his titles -- the Court is sufficiently in awe of Teague to know precisely who he is - [[User:Kwenn|'Captain Kwenn']] – Talk 17:59, 3 September 2007 (UTC) :It would seem another reason why Barbossa didn't call Teague by his said lorsdhip title was to not confuse him with the the nine pirate lords, because we know he wasn't. - Captain J. Sparrow 20:38, 3 September 2007 (UTC) :Kwenn: If Barbossa respected and feared Teague, he wouldn't disrespect him by excluding his titles. Teague can't be a Brethren Court pirate Lord, because he is not the ruler of a sea (whole point of imprisoning Calypso), he would have passed on his peice of eight if he retired, he would have participated in the meeting had he been one, and also, everyone feared him because he enforced the code so well. This information that I have listed comes from the movie AWE, and that overrules the canonicity of the Visual Guide (assuming that's the source we get Teague being a Pirate Lord).--Lord Cutler BeckettPort Royal 11:48, 15 September 2007 (UTC) ::Weve already been through this Lord Beckett, nobody's is saying he was a brethren court lord, he cant of been because there was already nine at the time he used the title. But in his capacity as ruler of madagascar he went by the title of lord making him the Pirate Lord of Madagascar, this has been confirmed in a canon source and receives no contradiction in the films, therfore its canon until higher canon says otherwise.--'\\Captain KAJ//' 13:53, 15 September 2007 (UTC) :::No need to get snappish KAJ, those comments were directed at Kwenn, who apparently maintains that Teague was a Brethren Court Pirate Lord. I say this because he keeps adding Teague's status as Pirate Lord of Madagascar to the Brethren Court page. His title is unofficial and it is most likely is not recognized by the Brethren, as if he made such a claim, he would infringe upon the rights of Sri Sumbhajee, who has been granted Pirate lordship over the Indian Ocean.--Lord Cutler BeckettPort Royal 16:08, 15 September 2007 (UTC) :::Im sorry, I didnt mean to come across snappish, Im just trying to put an end to this debate, as the old arguments are just getting repeated constantly and it doesnt seem to be going anywhere.--'\\Captain KAJ//' 17:45, 15 September 2007 (UTC) ::::"His title is unofficial and it is most likely is not recognized by the Brethren"; speculation. The fact is that Teague has been identified as the Pirate Lord of Madagascar, and is part of the Brethren Court -- yes, I know he's not part of the nine, but he's with the Court nevertheless. Hence his inclusion on the Court page - [[User:Kwenn|'Captain Kwenn']] – Talk 18:09, 15 September 2007 (UTC) :::::The above statement by Kwenn is 100% correct and 100% canon, so lets draw a line under this shall we.--'\\Captain KAJ//' 20:09, 15 September 2007 (UTC) ::::::Assuming that the fact that his Pirate Lord status is recognized by the nine is not just speculation, but is non-canon, as per the movies. Don't act like the PotC movie guides are infallible (i.e. Kraken). If Teague was Pirate Lord of Madagascar, and was part of the court as such, Barbossa would have announced him as such. The fact is that he was only included on the Brethren Court page in the guide because he is the Keeper of the Code. And as for KAJ: what Kwenn said is really 80% correct, and 80% speculation.--Lord Cutler BeckettPort Royal 11:46, 16 September 2007 (UTC) :We've gotten far from the point of the forum. There is no canon evidence to support or deny that Davy Jones was a pirate lord. So it is almost cetain he wasn't a pirate lord. And Captain Teague is/was the pirate lord of Madagascar, whatever that means. - Captain J. Sparrow 21:26, 18 September 2007 (UTC) ::Agreed this conversation is over, Davy Jones was not a Pirate Lord, Teague was.--'\\Captain KAJ//' 15:57, 20 September 2007 (UTC) :::...but not of the Brethren Court.--Lord Cutler BeckettPort Royal 13:06, 23 September 2007 (UTC) ::::Teague is a Pirate Lord. He's part of the Brethren Court. He's not one of "the" nine. He's also Keeper of the Code. End of. - [[User:Kwenn|'Captain Kwenn']] – Talk 14:05, 23 September 2007 (UTC) :::::But he is not part of the Brethren Court because he is a "Pirate Lord".--Lord Cutler BeckettPort Royal 20:42, 25 September 2007 (UTC) ::::::He's part of the Court because he's the Keeper of the Code. El Chupacabra 10:33, 26 September 2007 (UTC) maybe, it's cool that you bring that up signed Jack sparrow 11 23:57, 20 December 2007 (UTC)